Discussion:
Application for target printing
Ivan Tsyba
2014-01-15 14:00:29 UTC
Permalink
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>,
Adobe
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.

Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command line)
to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Dimitrije Zivkovic
2014-01-15 14:05:12 UTC
Permalink
Find on internet CS4 portable. Then you can print whatever you want without
color management

Dimitrije Zivkovic
INEQS ceramic toners & printers
Technical Director
Zastupnik za Srbiju, Crnu Goru, Bosnu i Hercegovinu.
Sabac
Telefon: +38115353653
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>, Adobe
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Ivan Tsyba
2014-01-15 14:10:29 UTC
Permalink
Thanks
CS4 is suitable for this, but its not free and I need something lightweight
to instruct my clients to print targets from it
Post by Dimitrije Zivkovic
Find on internet CS4 portable. Then you can print whatever you want
without color management
Dimitrije Zivkovic
INEQS ceramic toners & printers
Technical Director
Zastupnik za Srbiju, Crnu Goru, Bosnu i Hercegovinu.
Sabac
Telefon: +38115353653
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>, Adobe
Post by Ivan Tsyba
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Daniel Pfeiffer
2014-01-15 14:12:54 UTC
Permalink
If you are working with RGB-targets GIMP may help.
Color management can be turned off in the global settings there. Remove any
profile assignments within the windows color settings before printing.

For CMYK targets I don`t now yet.

Daniel
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>, Adobe
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Ivan Tsyba
2014-01-15 14:28:37 UTC
Permalink
GIMP is free but not lightweight. But thanks, I will look on GIMP for
that purpose.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
If you are working with RGB-targets GIMP may help.
Color management can be turned off in the global settings there. Remove
any profile assignments within the windows color settings before printing.
For CMYK targets I don`t now yet.
Daniel
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>, Adobe
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Phil Cruse
2014-01-15 15:22:01 UTC
Permalink
Hi All,

For CMYK targets, for my own stuff, when using a RIP(with Colour Management OFF), I use Apples Pages (from iWork 08) which thankfully doesn't interfere, but not sure about newer versions. Customers who are doing proofing, usually have the option in the RIP to turn off Colour Management. The only non-RIP print driver I know capable of printing CMYK is Gutenprint, but this only supports a limited range of printers.

Take care,

Phil Cruse

Phil Cruse
Graphic Quality Consultancy

http://www.colourphil.co.uk
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
If you are working with RGB-targets GIMP may help.
Color management can be turned off in the global settings there. Remove any profile assignments within the windows color settings before printing.
For CMYK targets I don`t now yet.
Daniel
As I wrote earlier, Adobe Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
edmund ronald
2014-01-17 01:56:18 UTC
Permalink
4% scaling on an A4 shouldn't matter in any way for i1 and most auto
scanners should swallow it. Which device is barfing?

Edmund
Post by Phil Cruse
Hi All,
For CMYK targets, for my own stuff, when using a RIP(with Colour
Management OFF), I use Apples Pages (from iWork 08) which thankfully
doesn't interfere, but not sure about newer versions. Customers who are
doing proofing, usually have the option in the RIP to turn off Colour
Management. The only non-RIP print driver I know capable of printing CMYK
is Gutenprint, but this only supports a limited range of printers.
Take care,
Phil Cruse
Phil Cruse
Graphic Quality Consultancy
http://www.colourphil.co.uk
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
If you are working with RGB-targets GIMP may help.
Color management can be turned off in the global settings there. Remove
any profile assignments within the windows color settings before printing.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
For CMYK targets I don`t now yet.
Daniel
As I wrote earlier, Adobe Color Printer Utility is not so good for
target printing because of unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by
manual scaling to 104% in printer job setting.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Ivan Tsyba
2014-01-17 10:59:02 UTC
Permalink
I'm using ColorMunki with i1 target. This device aperture read third row
from currently aligned with ruler, so correct target size is critical in
this situation
Post by edmund ronald
4% scaling on an A4 shouldn't matter in any way for i1 and most auto
scanners should swallow it. Which device is barfing?
Edmund
Post by Phil Cruse
Hi All,
For CMYK targets, for my own stuff, when using a RIP(with Colour
Management OFF), I use Apples Pages (from iWork 08) which thankfully
doesn't interfere, but not sure about newer versions. Customers who are
doing proofing, usually have the option in the RIP to turn off Colour
Management. The only non-RIP print driver I know capable of printing CMYK
is Gutenprint, but this only supports a limited range of printers.
Take care,
Phil Cruse
Phil Cruse
Graphic Quality Consultancy
http://www.colourphil.co.uk
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
If you are working with RGB-targets GIMP may help.
Color management can be turned off in the global settings there. Remove
any profile assignments within the windows color settings before printing.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
For CMYK targets I don`t now yet.
Daniel
As I wrote earlier, Adobe Color Printer Utility is not so good for
target printing because of unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by
manual scaling to 104% in printer job setting.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Post by Daniel Pfeiffer
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command
line) to print targets without any color management on Windows?
Graeme Gill
2014-01-30 02:15:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan Tsyba
I'm using ColorMunki with i1 target. This device aperture read third row
from currently aligned with ruler, so correct target size is critical in
this situation
I've yet to have someone explain to me where the 4% comes from.

I have a suspicion that it's a page margin shrink, and therefore
is not a fixed value.

Graeme Gill.
edmund ronald
2014-01-30 03:27:26 UTC
Permalink
Is the shrink isotropic?
Edmund
Post by Graeme Gill
Post by Ivan Tsyba
I'm using ColorMunki with i1 target. This device aperture read third row
from currently aligned with ruler, so correct target size is critical in
this situation
I've yet to have someone explain to me where the 4% comes from.
I have a suspicion that it's a page margin shrink, and therefore
is not a fixed value.
Graeme Gill.
Graeme Gill
2014-01-30 04:49:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by edmund ronald
Is the shrink isotropic?
If it's due to a margin, then it's probably not.

Graeme Gill.
Alan Goldhammer
2014-01-30 13:19:48 UTC
Permalink
I think this refers to the well-known problem of the Adobe Color Print
Utility which under Windows does not print out the correct size patches. It
is isotropic in that the square is preserved, just smaller. This does not
affect readings with an i1 Pro spectro and the supplied reader device.
However, ColorMunki users who are trying to print smaller targets to
conserve paper may not get reliable readings. I'm an i1 Pro users and have
compared readings of test charts prepared with Photoshop CS4, the last
version that one could use to print out non-color managed targets and the
ACPU. Adobe shows no signs of addressing this problem despite numerous
complaints to them via their forum.



I think we've discussed this issue in the past.



Alan



From: argyllcms-bounce-***@public.gmane.org [mailto:argyllcms-bounce-***@public.gmane.org]
On Behalf Of edmund ronald
Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2014 10:27 PM
To: argyllcms-***@public.gmane.org
Subject: [argyllcms] Re: Application for target printing



Is the shrink isotropic?

Edmund
Post by Ivan Tsyba
I'm using ColorMunki with i1 target. This device aperture read third row
from currently aligned with ruler, so correct target size is critical in
this situation
I've yet to have someone explain to me where the 4% comes from.

I have a suspicion that it's a page margin shrink, and therefore
is not a fixed value.

Graeme Gill.
edmund ronald
2014-01-30 23:43:04 UTC
Permalink
You should also realize that something like 0.5 % shrink or dilatation in
the paper transport due to paper feed programming inaccuracies can be
expected. Gutenprint and the vendor driver feed differently on some media.

All these printing apps and drivers do their own thing and querying whoever
writes them seems to be a no-win situation.

Edmund
Post by Alan Goldhammer
I think this refers to the well-known problem of the Adobe Color Print
Utility which under Windows does not print out the correct size patches.
It is isotropic in that the square is preserved, just smaller. This does
not affect readings with an i1 Pro spectro and the supplied reader device.
However, ColorMunki users who are trying to print smaller targets to
conserve paper may not get reliable readings. I'm an i1 Pro users and have
compared readings of test charts prepared with Photoshop CS4, the last
version that one could use to print out non-color managed targets and the
ACPU. Adobe shows no signs of addressing this problem despite numerous
complaints to them via their forum.
I think we've discussed this issue in the past.
Alan
*Sent:* Wednesday, January 29, 2014 10:27 PM
*Subject:* [argyllcms] Re: Application for target printing
Is the shrink isotropic?
Edmund
Post by Ivan Tsyba
I'm using ColorMunki with i1 target. This device aperture read third row
from currently aligned with ruler, so correct target size is critical in
this situation
I've yet to have someone explain to me where the 4% comes from.
I have a suspicion that it's a page margin shrink, and therefore
is not a fixed value.
Graeme Gill.
Ernst Dinkla
2014-01-23 08:53:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by Ivan Tsyba
As I wrote earlier<http://www.freelists.org/post/argyllcms/Adobe-Color-Printer-Utility-scaling-target-image>,
Adobe
Color Printer Utility is not so good for target printing because of
unwanted image scaling. This can be bypassed by manual scaling to 104% in
printer job setting.
Today I discover another problem (on Windows): ACPU can't print targets
bigger than A4: on A3 paper I get A3 target image cropped to A4 size.
Can somebody recommend another widely available program (even command line)
to print targets without any color management on Windows?
For OS-X Maverick there seems to be a route that is described here by
Mark McCormick with Colorsync involved:
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3584510

For Windows I use Qimage Ultimate. Photoline is usable too I think for,
Windows at least. There are more applications that will not bend like
Adobe did.

There were some questions unanswered in the above linked thread too. In
Qimage at least the color management settings do the following:

Qimage has 3 main choices on color management:

1/ CM-Off = Qimage doesn't convert the file, sends the plain RGB data to
the driver so with the color space profile stripped from the file.

In that mode it will also not assign a colorspace to an untagged file,
for example a target file for profile creation. And Windows will not
assign a profile either, it leaves that task to applications.

2/ Let printer manage color = Qimage does the above but the color space
profile isn't stripped from the file so the printer driver CM can do
something sensible with the file.

3/ Qimage CM on, Qimage does the conversion and sends the converted data
to the printer driver, expecting that the last's CM is set to Let
application do CM, so in fact with the driver's CM off..

In both 2 and 3 Qimage could assign a colorspace to an untagged file
based on EXIF data, camera model as an educated guess or without any
hint available it will assign a color space, the default sRGB or a
preferred choice of the user, say AdobeRGB or nothing if the user
doesn't like guesswork.

The printer driver has usually two choices: let driver do CM and the
other one let application do CM. With application CM set the driver will
do no conversion at all and expects that the application does the work.
That is also the setting you will use to transfer targets through with
Qimage on CM off. When the driver does CM it will expect files with
certain colorspaces, my Z3200 can be set on AdobeRGB or sRGB, the PS
driver has more spaces. The conversion happens to LUTs in the driver so
not with ICC profiles.
--
Met vriendelijke groet, Ernst

http://www.pigment-print.com/spectralplots/spectrumviz_1.htm
January 2014, 600+ inkjet media white spectral plots.
BC Rider
2014-01-23 18:54:30 UTC
Permalink
Photoline is usable too I think for, Windows at least.
Yes, Photoline most definitely works. I switched to Photoline
some time ago as an alternative to Photoshop and currently
print all my targets with Photoline.

Both Qimage and Photoline tend to scale to avoid cropping so
one has to be careful at times.

I think their user interface and feature set is overly complicated
for a simple task such as printing targets (and they are a bit
expensive for just that!) but they definitely work.
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